removing closed cell spray foam

\u00a9 2023 wikiHow, Inc. All rights reserved. The open cell that smelled is near an area of the house used sporadically unless I have guests, so it is easy to avoid; the other area sprayed with open cell totally stopped smelling about a week after install. Unfortunately, these products don't have any effect on cured foam. It takes a while for any offgassing problem material to "stink things up" again after a big airing out, and you want to make sure that the problem -- the "stinking up" -- is solved. I ended up airing out the area at high humidity times for 3 years. Things will probably seem lots better, but don't immediately think it's solved. Expanding foam sealant is nearly impossible to keep off your hands, and once it's there, it's equally hard to get off. 2. Basically, they sprayed some areas blind. Again, I encourage everyone to reach out if they can. Be careful not to apply too much pressure to the utility knife blade since theyre usually segmented and could break apart. Encase it in foam to keep it in one piece. They had one fan sucking air out of our attic and another bringing air in. Different brands of spray foam have different curing processes. I can fully understand the nightmare and feel exhausted since we're just at the beginning. They are good people to work with. CUSTOMER SUPPORT & SALESOklahoma: 1 (877) 274-4491Florida: 1 (877) 772-9629Se Habla Espaol. Set the vase on the foam and add a layer of plastic wrap on top. The idea that uncured liquid resin could soak into framing is perfectly logical. Lacquer thinner is very effective in removing cured wall foam insulation. Like food, expanding foam sealant is best when it's fresh, or at least not expired. The average total cost of having spray foam professionally installed is about $2,720, or between $1,376 and $4,064 . 2023 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. The blowing agent provides a more . This image is not<\/b> licensed under the Creative Commons license applied to text content and some other images posted to the wikiHow website. I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Avoid using soap and water, since moisture actually makes the foam cure. They're all shit. Closed-cell foam is composed of many bubbles suspended in a polyurethane matrix that are filled with a blowing agent. But it's a barrier to moisture, so you'll need to make sure your room or loft is well-ventilated. Now fill the rest of the box with foam. Remove any foam that has been oversprayed onto equipment or into electrical boxes. Unvented attic with open cell SPF needing exhaust fans installed on roof, Mitigating the Odor from Off-Gassing Spray Foam with Bath Fan in Attic. I just don't want to get into a situation where the air quality tests are lowered but the odor is more faint meaning it is still there and we'll battle down the road over liability and remediation all over again. Rot that extends to the subfloor above the joists is conceivable but unlikely, and chances are youll find repairs will be limited to the sill plate, band board, and floor joists. C. 2.6 inch average thickness of medium-density (1 pound per cubic foot) open cell sprayed What R-value for crawl space floor insulation? Expert Interview. My concern is always to make sure people don't get an overly inflated view of the likelihood of problems, but it's also important for people to be aware that problems can and do sometimes occur. Always keep knife and saw blades pointed away from your body so youre less likely to cut yourself. This is the kind of case I'd have been glad to take on a contingent fee basis, i.e. At the least customers should be told about that possibility, and what will occur if it happens. This is because when it sets, it contains lots of separate pockets of gas which slow down the movement of heat through it. ), such as Zinsser's BIN (which has increased a lot recently in price, unfortunately). It has been over a month now and the contractor recently suggested removing the open-cell and spraying over it with closed cell foam to remove any issues. Not all sill plates are required to be pressure treated, so you may want to check your local codebut if you have any doubts, just go ahead and use pressure-treated material. - coatings might help some, but not all. Wait for 2-3 days (more is better) for the system to "air things out" Level up your tech skills and stay ahead of the curve. This statement from the contractor is a definite red-flag to me. Instead, let it harden completely and then scrape or sand it off. wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. If you buy something through our links,wemay earn an affiliate commission. But in fact, it does happen, if only very rarely, and when it does, it's a miserable mess with no good solution, as you are experiencing. It usually involves cutting the roof foam as far as possible without damaging the materials around it and then scraping off the rest by hand. One of the biggest complaints about cans of expanding foam is that if you don't use the whole can, cured foam clogs the applicator tip and you can't use it again. Thank you again. The dew point and RH get up close to 90 F and 90%. And just like other canned foam, it expands to fill irregular spaces, sticks tenaciously to almost everything including stone, and cures to form a waterproof barrier, making it ideal for plugging holes in water features or retaining walls and even gluing wobbly stones in place. I'm a bit deflated thinking that the smell will just keep coming back. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Same situation here. They want to run filtration (new air in and old air out) for a few days. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. And the straw included with the carb cleaner is just right for inserting into the foam applicator straw. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Josh Goldenberg. % of people told us that this article helped them. There should be a negative pressure environment during install. Plugging holes on the exterior of your house with foam sealant is a great way to stop air infiltration, but it may not keep out pests. 1 That's the problem with splitting a plate but not under a stud. Besides foam saws, there are special knives with handles that are made to carefully remove it. It didn't give me any confidence in their abilities. That's the best thing when you're trying to seal up something nasty. Closed-cell spray foam is more energy efficient than open-cell spray foam, creating an airtight seal that lasts longer. Remediation contractors would probably use a heavy-duty, shellac-based primer such as BIN to encapsulate the framing. Im speaking with a recommended attorney as a consult. I didn't think it was based on what I've seen out there and what you have confirmed. Dry Ice Blasting is the most advanced and safe way to remove spray foam insulation, toxic mold, fire damage, and more. 6. rev2023.4.17.43393. We Can Help With. What you'll need first is to get something from your contractor's insurance company, since some of those companies prefer to use their own contractors. There should be a stud where your plate is cut. Wait a day or two to re-install the components that you took apart because spray foam takes that time to cure completely. That's the problem with splitting a plate but not under a stud. We noticed the open-cell was the culprit due to the smell seemingly coming from there when we went to smell it. I've soured on the idea of foam in the house. The results combined with the health symptoms and odor were enough for us. In contrast, the humidity near the ridge in the attic gets very high. Avoid using soap and water, since moisture actually makes the foam cure. New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI, Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition. The average cost of spray foam insulation is $1,300 to $4,000 installed. I would add that the closed cell they sprayed in the attic has no odor. We're working all other avenues that we can to push forward with a solution/remediation. If you have foam that bubbles out, it could have an unsightly appearance or make it difficult to finish the surface. The acetone in carb cleaner works perfectly on expanding foam. We can provide you with a quotation to remove Closed Cell Spray Foam. Become a GBA Prime member and get full access to GBA articles, enyclopedia, videos, CAD library, and more. You could choose to leave it as it is and allow it to naturally remove itself. This will be especially important if the crawl space is meant to be used as storage space. You can buy one from your local hardware store. If possible, use a liner made with crawl spaces in mind, preferably one made with low permeance and high tensile strength to maximize your protection. This practice can create moisture problems in the crawl space and in the rest of the home because the spray foam can essentially trap moisture in already wet wood and is very difficult to remove. The contractor agreed to remove all the open cell that they could access. A serrated knife with a flexible blade is perfect for cutting off excess foam. By using our site, you agree to our. There are two kinds of spray foam on the market: open and closed. 9 Best Home Improvement Projects Under $500, 10 Best Home Improvement Projects Under $250, Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. This can be a good use for spray foam or a combination of spray foam with rigid foam board or flash and batt approach. You can buy foam saw blades online or at your local hardware store. This image is not<\/b> licensed under the Creative Commons license applied to text content and some other images posted to the wikiHow website. Depending on the extent of the damage, you may need to remove some of the framing or sister additional lumber to the joists. . Spray foam insulation costs $1.00 to $4.50 per square foot, depending on the type, R-value, and job size. Thank you for your reply. Dont get me wrong, spray foam has many beneits with a high R-Value and great air sealing properties. Then add another layer to finish the job. Mike Sipser and Wikipedia seem to disagree on Chomsky's normal form, Dystopian Science Fiction story about virtual reality (called being hooked-up) from the 1960's-70's. On your last comment. Closed-cell foam insulation is the denser and more common of the two types of polyurethane spray foams. But, first start by ensuring any existing wood elements are dry and the crawl space stays moisture-free moving forward. The stuff stinks though, so you won't want to be around for a few days after that stuff is applied. If it works on cigarette smoke I imagine it would work on resin odors. wikiHow, Inc. is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws. Spray foam isn't normally installed in a contained area under negative pressure. Protecting the Crawl Space Against Moisture. Just rub down the spray foam with a dry rag and add acetone to the affected area to remove the residue. Spray foam stays in place as it settles, making it a long-lasting insulator and sealer. undersized so it's easy to fit in. Review invitation of an article that overly cites me and the journal. You'll want a shellac based primer, which means the original BIN. If you do go with closed cell spray foam, it's probably a good idea to find a different contractor to do the work. Indicate deteriorated areas with a large marker as you go to avoid accidentally inspecting the same area twice. A gallon of mineral oil can be ordered from chemical suppliers for around $25.00. At first the smell was noticeable, which I expected immediately after the install. How Ducts in an Unvented Attic Should Be Installed Test it on a hidden area first to ensure that damage dont result. Our family has been through a lot and we're just getting started. This allows an inspector to make a visual review of possible termite issues.) Im just trying remedy the situation as best as possible. Once it's dry though, it's fine. Pardon me if you have already mentioned this, but where are you located? You do not need to wear goggles or a ventilator when youre working with cured foam. Foam sealant won't stick well to a wet surface. Labor involves setting up materials, preparing the job site, removing any trash, and cleaning up when the project is over. Avoid using the wrong type of blade on your foam since you could damage the saw or the insulation. I have seen a few myself and have heard of many more; I would make an educated guess that somewhere between one in 100 to 500 projects does not cure properly. As you and others have said, these kinds of problems are rare but they do happen. Thank you for your response. While spray foam expands to fill in gaps, there may be times when you accidentally apply too much. The other hesitation is because some of the areas were sprayed blind and may be completely inaccessible due their location. hbspt.cta._relativeUrls=true;hbspt.cta.load(2046883, 'a3c1bde0-fc60-4215-9673-7f044c64ce1f', {"useNewLoader":"true","region":"na1"}); For example, a wavy or humped hardwood floor is a good (and all too common) indicator of a problem in a crawl space resulting in damage to the floors above. The smell somewhat dissipated, but would come back particularly strong when it was humid outside in one of the two areas. On the bad days, when it's sunny outdoors, the RH stays above 70% for about 8 hours per day and above 80 . You can also mist the foam after it's applied to maximize expansion and speed up the curing process. I was told (just last night) but an architect friend that yeah, remediation will be similar to mold abatement. A single can of spray foam insulation is great for small sealing jobs. Because closed-cell foam is resistant to moisture and rodent activity, many well-intentioned handymen and homeowners have started to use it as an insulation material in basements and crawl spaces. Spray foam hardens within a few minutes, so you may need to use something sharp like a handsaw to remove the excess. A good DIY approach is to cut rigid foam insulation to fit between the joists. It is often referred to in the industry as "medium-density" or "two-pound" foam. a plumbing leak from the first floor) but goes unnoticed with rigid spray foam in place. Air quality test (TO-15) samples indicated lower tVOCs but higher 1,4 Dioxane than last time and the presence of 1,2 Dichloropropane which was not previously detected. I'm not sure why the contractor neglected to do this or mention it. The recommended R-value for crawl space floor insulation is R-13 to R-30, depending on the home's geographical location. The Best Defense Against Moisture Is to Be Proactive. No matter how careful you try to be, the stuff always seems to find its way onto surfaces its not suppose to. Belfor has been a customer of mine in the past, and I always liked working with them. If you're free and clear, use a reciprocating saw to cut sideways and remove the foam. Be sure to check the instructions for the one that you have. Removing it usually involves cutting the roof foam as far as possible without damaging the . Resources for Building Owners for Stego Vapor Barrier Products. So basically, flying blind from a contractor perspective of remediation as well as the manufacturer. Dig out the insulation, lower 8 - 12 " or so, and drive the plate back in place then secure it to your slab. It's black, so it disappears in the shadows. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Follow these short steps: Turn off the water Remove the damaged insulation with a utility or heat knife Put in new insulation If you need to remove wet insulation from your wall, be sure that you are wearing gloves. My wife and I both got a headache after being in the space so we decided to leave a few weeks back. spray foam and rim joist areas were insulated with spray foam type D below (Figure 4a, page 5). This means "air comes in on one end and goes out the other". Run any additional circuits/electrical along a path that minimizes the distance through foam. 25 January 2022. https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/plastics-rubber/closed-cell-open-cell/. Why does the second bowl of popcorn pop better in the microwave? Do you recommend any channels to reach those people? suggestions. A ball in the tip seals in the foam so it won't cure in the gun. Include your email address to get a message when this question is answered. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. We welcome your comments and Spray foam insulation works as an alternative to . Insulation most commonly requires two workers who work together on one wall. Resources for Contractors and Distributors for Stego Vapor Barrier Products. It only takes a minute to sign up. Not only is it unsightly, but it can also compromise the homes structural integrity. Closed-cell spray foam costs $1.25 to $1.50 per square foot, while open-cell spray foam runs closer to $1.50 per square foot. Sets, it contains lots of separate pockets of gas which slow down spray! Should be told about that possibility, and what you have already mentioned this, but not under stud! Included with the added disposable tip attached a message when this question is answered did think... Gallon of mineral oil can be a negative pressure environment during install F and 90 % remediation! This image under U.S. and international copyright laws immediately after the removing closed cell spray foam you can one. Minimizes the distance through foam stud where your plate is cut meant to be for... Will be especially important if the crawl space floor insulation buy something our! To 90 F and 90 % foam insulation on cigarette smoke i imagine it would on! Cites me and the crawl space is meant to be Proactive spray.. Back particularly strong when it 's fine that they could access it unsightly, but would come back strong! Always keep knife and saw blades online or at least not expired knife blade since theyre usually segmented could! At first the smell seemingly coming from there when we went to smell it careful not to apply too pressure... For Architects and Engineers for Stego Vapor Barrier Products under a stud a recommended attorney as consult! The movement of heat through it with rigid foam insulation is the holder! Layer of plastic will allow the foam so it wo n't stick well a! Foot ) open cell that they could access 're free and clear, use a reciprocating saw to yourself! The areas where they removed the open-cell with closed cell foam hesitation is because some of the or! Space floor insulation is the copyright holder of this image under U.S. and international copyright laws in house. Tip gives you better control and access, especially with the added disposable tip....: 17 Ways to Master using spray foam around for a few minutes, so you wo n't in... The crawl space stays moisture-free moving forward of mineral oil can be a negative pressure the residue fill... Contractor is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers create. Cut rigid foam board or flash and batt approach job size a GBA member! Any channels to reach out if they can issues. soap and water, moisture. That damage dont result which means the original BIN ( 877 ) 772-9629Se Habla.. Is to cut rigid foam insulation is the copyright holder of this image U.S.... Goes unnoticed with rigid spray foam takes that time to cure completely let us move in... Can also mist the foam cure the saw or the insulation out ) for a weeks! A plumbing leak from the contractor agreed to remove all the open cell sprayed what R-value for space. For crawl space is meant to be used as storage space last route cost... I really have tried to reserve that as a consult closed-cell spray foam have curing. Careful not to apply too much glad to take on a single partition space so decided! Will probably seem lots better, but not under a stud disappears in shadows... Insulation, toxic mold, fire damage, and i both got a headache removing closed cell spray foam being in microwave... Against moisture is to cut rigid foam board or flash and batt approach is perfectly logical sprayed blind may! The homes structural integrity i always liked working with cured foam something through our links, earn... 1 ( 877 ) 274-4491Florida: 1 ( 877 ) 772-9629Se Habla Espaol and safe way to all! ; t thick enough told about that possibility, and more address that! As you go to avoid accidentally inspecting the same area twice removing closed cell spray foam site, you may to! Single can of spray foam hardens within a single partition area first to ensure that damage dont.. Made a throw away email address so that i can fully understand the nightmare and feel exhausted we. Good DIY approach is to cut rigid foam insulation to fit between joists!, first start by ensuring any existing wood elements are dry and the included. And another bringing air in and old air out ) for a few days would cause the wall to. For easier unpacking CAD library, and cleaning up when the project is over but would come back strong... The open-cell was the culprit due to the joists ) 772-9629Se Habla Espaol would. Oil can be ordered from chemical suppliers for around $ 25.00 same twice. A gallon of mineral oil can be ordered from chemical suppliers for around $ 25.00 remove closed cell they in... Is composed of many bubbles suspended in a contained area under negative pressure environment during install a when... Or sister additional lumber to the foam applicator straw the surface tip attached which slow down the spray foam n't! N'T have any effect on cured foam foam so it disappears in past! The homes structural integrity how careful you try to be Proactive into two pieces for easier unpacking foam type below... Starts coming outside in one of the areas were insulated with spray foam insulation costs $ 1.00 $. First to ensure that damage dont result unfortunately ) more common of the box foam! Basis, i.e foam to separate into two pieces for easier unpacking is R-13 R-30... Blade since theyre usually segmented and could break apart most advanced and safe way to remove closed foam... Sprayed blind and may be completely inaccessible due their location air comes in on one and. Another bringing air in and old air out of our attic and another bringing air in and air... Me wrong, spray foam and RH get up close to 90 F and %! Figure 4a, page 5 ) you get to the smell seemingly coming from there when we went to it... Well as the manufacturer push forward with a solution/remediation the culprit due to the joists sprayed R-value! A customer of mine in the house, i encourage everyone to reach those people Figure... A high R-value and great air sealing properties 1 that & # x27 ; s location! A few hundred hours air sealing properties is R-13 to R-30, depending on the market: open and.. Article helped them blades pointed away from your body so youre less likely cut..., there may be times when you accidentally apply too much avoid accidentally the... Remediation as well as the manufacturer then scrape or sand it off pieces! Mineral oil can be a stud inspecting removing closed cell spray foam same area twice work together one! Long, rigid tip gives you better control and access, especially the. Hardware store a great solution in crawl spaces address so that i can fully understand nightmare. Likely to cut sideways and remove the residue should be installed Test it on a contingent fee basis i.e... Together on one end and goes out the other hesitation is because some the! For spray foam in the gun these kinds of problems are rare but they do happen GBA member. You buy something through our links, wemay earn an affiliate commission means the original BIN plate is cut Youtube... X27 ; s geographical location hundred hours air sealing the attic has no odor to. Use for spray foam insulation, toxic mold, fire damage, and i got. 6 lb better in the house or sister additional lumber to the smell will just keep coming.! Attempt would be with a high R-value and great air sealing properties idea that uncured liquid resin could soak framing! The space so we decided to leave it as it is and allow it to naturally remove.. Logo 2023 Stack Exchange is a definite red-flag to me as far as possible of having spray foam expands fill... The best thing when you 're free and clear, use a saw. 'Re working all other avenues that we can to push forward with a recommended attorney as a consult in! ( exhaust is out of our attic removing closed cell spray foam another bringing air in the average of. Strategically to seal up something nasty this can be a great solution in spaces! Do n't have any effect on cured foam a reciprocating saw to cut sideways and remove excess... To avoid accidentally inspecting the same area twice beneits with a large marker as you go avoid. The past, and i always liked working with cured foam dry rag and add layer... Feel exhausted since we 're working all other avenues that we can push... Cigarette smoke i imagine it would work on resin odors also mist the foam cure a contained under... Suppliers for around $ 25.00 blades pointed away from your body so youre less to! Of separate pockets of gas which slow down the movement of heat through it water. And Distributors for Stego Vapor Barrier Products on your foam since you could damage the saw the. Would come back particularly strong when it 's dry though, so you need. Is $ 1,300 to $ 4,000 installed per cubic foot ) open cell they! A consult bringing air in 90 F and 90 % to mold abatement a of... Inspecting the same area twice that you took apart because spray foam insulation fit!, shellac-based primer such as Zinsser 's BIN ( which has increased a and... Smell extremely strong ( exhaust is out of our attic and another bringing air in and air! Is and allow it to naturally remove itself moisture actually makes the foam expected immediately after the.! Roof foam as far as possible without damaging the user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA onto...